Legislature(1997 - 1998)

04/07/1997 03:26 PM House L&C

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
          HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE                          
                         April 7, 1997                                         
                           3:26 p.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Norman Rokeberg, Chairman                                      
 Representative John Cowdery, Vice Chairman                                    
 Representative Bill Hudson                                                    
 Representative Jerry Sanders                                                  
 Representative Joe Ryan                                                       
 Representative Tom Brice                                                      
 Representative Gene Kubina                                                    
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 All members present                                                           
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL NO. 137                                                            
 "An Act relating to veterinarians; extending the termination date             
 of the Board of Veterinary Examiners; and providing for an                    
 effective date."                                                              
                                                                               
      - MOVED CSHB 137(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                   
                                                                               
 * HOUSE BILL NO. 208                                                          
 "An Act relating to the board of directors of the Alaska Aerospace            
 Development Corporation."                                                     
                                                                               
      - MOVED CSHB 208(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                   
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL NO. 207                                                            
 "An Act relating to employer drug and alcohol testing programs."              
                                                                               
      - MOVED CSHB 207(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                   
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL NO. 218                                                            
 "An Act relating to regulation and examination of insurers and                
 insurance agents; relating to kinds of insurance; relating to                 
 payment of insurance taxes and to required insurance reserves;                
 relating to insurance policies; relating to regulation of capital,            
 surplus, and investments by insurers; relating to hospital and                
 medical service corporations; and providing for an effective date."           
                                                                               
      - HEARD AND HELD                                                         
                                                                               
 (* First public hearing)                                                      
                                                                               
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 137                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: BOARD OF VETERINARY EXAMINERS; LICENSE                           
 SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF BUDGET AND AUDIT COMMITTEE                    
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG                 ACTION                                   
 02/13/97       334    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 02/13/97       334    (H)   LABOR & COMMERCE                                  
 03/21/97              (H)   L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                         
 03/21/97              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
                                                                              
 BILL:  HB 208                                                                
 SHORT TITLE: ALASKA AEROSPACE DEVELOPMENT CORP. BOARD                         
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) AUSTERMAN                                       
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG                 ACTION                                   
 03/24/97       806    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/24/97       806    (H)   LABOR & COMMERCE                                  
 04/07/97              (H)   L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                         
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 207                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: EMPLOYER DRUG TESTING PROGRAM                                    
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) GREEN                                           
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG                 ACTION                                   
 03/21/97       785    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/21/97       785    (H)   LABOR & COMMERCE, JUDICIARY                       
 04/04/97              (H)   L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                         
 04/04/97              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 218                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: OMNIBUS INSURANCE REFORM                                         
 SPONSOR(S): LABOR & COMMERCE BY REQUEST                                       
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG                 ACTION                                   
 03/27/97       872    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/27/97       872    (H)   LABOR & COMMERCE                                  
 04/04/97              (H)   L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                         
 04/04/97              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 SHIRLEY ARMSTRONG, Legislative Assistant                                      
    to Representative Norman Rokeberg                                          
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 24                                                     
 Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4954                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided information on CSHB 137(L&C).                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN                                                 
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 434                                                    
 Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 465-2487                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented sponsor statement for HB 208.                  
                                                                               
 JEFFREY LOGAN, Legislative Assistant                                          
    to Representative Joe Green                                                
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 118                                                    
 Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4931                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented sponsor's position on HB 207.                  
                                                                               
 MARIANNE K. BURKE, Director                                                   
 Division of Insurance                                                         
 Department of Commerce and Economic Development                               
 P.O. Box 110805                                                               
 Juneau, Alaska  99811-0805                                                    
 Telephone:  (907) 465-2515                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided department's position and answered              
                      questions regarding HB 218.                              
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-35, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 0001                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN NORMAN ROKEBERG called the House Labor and Commerce                  
 Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:26 p.m.  Members present             
 at the call to order were Representatives Rokeberg, Cowdery, Ryan             
 and Kubina.  Representatives Brice, Sanders and Hudson joined the             
 meeting at 3:27 p.m., 3:30 p.m. and 3:55 p.m., respectively.                  
                                                                               
 HB 137 - BOARD OF VETERINARY EXAMINERS; LICENSE                             
                                                                               
 Number 0030                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG announced the first order of business was House             
 Bill No. 137, "An Act relating to veterinarians; extending the                
 termination date of the Board of Veterinary Examiners; and                    
 providing for an effective date."                                             
                                                                               
 Number 0075                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COWDERY made a motion to adopt as a work draft            
 version 0-LS0549\E, Lauterbach, 4/3/97.                                       
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG called a brief at-ease.  He then asked the                  
 committee aide to explain the situation with HB 137.                          
                                                                               
 Number 0153                                                                   
                                                                               
 SHIRLEY ARMSTRONG, Legislative Assistant to Representative Norman             
 Rokeberg, said when HB 137 was before the committee previously,               
 they made changes to conform to changes the Senate Labor and                  
 Commerce Committee had indicated they would make.  Since then, she            
 had held the committee substitute drafted at that time.  The Senate           
 committee had made no further changes.  Therefore, what the House             
 Labor and Commerce Committee discussed at the previous hearing was            
 exactly what was before them now.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 0208                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked whether the same fiscal note applies.            
                                                                               
 MS. ARMSTRONG affirmed that.  There was no increase in the number             
 of members.  The major change is on page 3, line 5.  Some                     
 veterinarians had a problem with the practical examination; there             
 is still no consensus on that.  They would prefer to remove that              
 exam, saying it is essentially the same as the other exam they                
 already take.  However, a group of veterinarians in Alaska believes           
 they should have knowledge of Alaska-specific maladies.  She cited            
 the high incidence of rabies as an example.  "If there is any                 
 controversy, that's the only one," she stated.  "Other than that,             
 everybody else has pretty much indicated the rest of the changes              
 are not significant."                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 0337                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JOE RYAN asked about the penned-in notation on page            
 3, line 18, of the draft.                                                     
                                                                               
 MS. ARMSTRONG advised that was her own note.                                  
                                                                               
 Number 0376                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked for verification that nothing in the bill             
 affects Iditarod-type veterinarians, for example.                             
                                                                               
 MS. ARMSTRONG said no, they obtain permits under "that last section           
 where we were making a note."  She said there was a discussion                
 about veterinarians coming to Alaska, setting up shop for two or              
 three months in the summer and doing business.  That was why she              
 had made the notation, as she questioned whether that should be               
 changed or reduced.  For the Iditarod, for example, someone could             
 get a 60-day renewable permit, for a total of 120 days.                       
                                                                               
 MS. ARMSTRONG said apparently the Senate had not dealt with that.             
 "What they've been trying to avoid on these boards is so they don't           
 have to go to a conference committee," she said.  "So we've been              
 trying to keep them the same.  But they haven't reached any                   
 agreement on the Alaska issue, and I'm not sure what they would do            
 if we changed the current law."                                               
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there was any objection to passage of              
 the bill.  He advised that the committee substitute had already               
 been adopted.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 0497                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN made a motion to move CSHB 137(L&C) from                  
 committee with individual recommendations and accompanying zero               
 fiscal note.                                                                  
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG, hearing no objection, advised that CSHB 137(L&C)           
 moved from the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee.                   
                                                                               
 HB 208 - ALASKA AEROSPACE DEVELOPMENT CORP. BOARD                           
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG announced the next order of business was House              
 Bill No. 208, "An Act relating to the board of directors of the               
 Alaska Aerospace Development Corporation."                                    
                                                                               
 Number 0568                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN, sponsor, asked whether this was on             
 teleconference.                                                               
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said no.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 0616                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN explained that he has been serving as an             
 ex officio member on the Alaska Aerospace Development Corporation             
 (AADC) board of directors for the last two and a half years.                  
 During the first few months on the board, he became concerned over            
 the lack of business people on the board, as well as with business            
 practices within the corporation.  This led to introduction of the            
 previous year's HB 533, which passed the House and is identical to            
 HB 208.                                                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN referred to a break-down included in                 
 committee packets showing the existing board and proposed changes.            
 The current board has four University of Alaska personnel.  When              
 they started the AADC, it was proper to have four university                  
 members who could study aerospace in Alaska as a science.  However,           
 they are past that point.  They have determined this is feasible,             
 scientifically sound and should be done.  Adding business members             
 will provide a broader business sense for running the corporation             
 and the business of launching rockets in Alaska.                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN advised that the AADC has projects that              
 include more than the university, such as the ground stations in              
 Fairbanks and the proposed Challenger Learning Center.  They are            
 also working with the Alyeska Pipeline Service to monitor pressure            
 valves, for example, through use of satellites.                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN said as the chart shows, they want to add            
 two business people and another "commercial space" person.                    
 Currently, one board member is the executive director of the Alaska           
 Science and Technology Foundation (ASTF), and one is the                      
 commissioner of the Department of Commerce and Economic Development           
 (DCED) or the commissioner's designee; one reason for dropping the            
 ASTF member is that the DCED has plenty of coverage.  In fact, the            
 commissioner could appoint the ASTF executive director as the                 
 designee.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 0884                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN referred to page 2, lines 27 and 28, and             
 advised that according to statute, the university president is a              
 board member and is appointed as chairman.  This bill changes it so           
 that the board selects its own chair and vice-chair.                          
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN discussed transitional provisions, listing           
 expiration dates for several members' terms.  Some positions being            
 eliminated have already expired.  He suggested the Governor make              
 those appointments right away.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1003                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG suggested other members would be allowed to serve           
 out their terms and there would be an orderly transition.                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN concurred.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1023                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether Representative Austerman thinks               
 there will be any difficulty in attracting aerospace or commercial            
 space members.                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1046                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN said no.  He had talked to Pat Ladner,               
 executive director of the AADC, and to others (such as board member           
 Courtney Stadd) who believe there is enough interest in the rocket            
 launch facility that finding members would not be a problem.                  
                                                                               
 Number 1077                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG advised that a copy of committee minutes from the           
 previous year's HB 533 was in the packet.  That bill passed the               
 House by a vote of 37 to 1.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1103                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GENE KUBINA said he recently sent the sponsor a memo           
 asking that he consider replacing the public member with a "K-12              
 educator" in order to get children involved in high technology                
 science.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1154                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN advised that he had no problem with the              
 public member.  There are two business people; two from the                   
 university; the commissioner of DCED; and two from the aerospace or           
 commercial space industry plus one from commercial space.  He                 
 suggested that the committee decide whether to replace the public             
 member with someone from the school system.                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1188                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether the Challenger Learning Center in             
 Kenai was involved under the title of this bill.                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN replied that it is a separate entity.                
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said there had been discussions in the past about           
 some relationship with that.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1217                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA said if someone is interested and has a                 
 background in the education community, children may become                    
 interested through the schools.  It is a good way to get                      
 information out to the community and generate support.  He                    
 suggested making it a public board member "and/or K-12 educator."             
 That would make a statement but still leave the Governor the option           
 of going a different way.                                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN said he had no problem with it.                      
                                                                               
 Number 1302                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Representative Austerman whether he knew of           
 anybody that would not support the legislation as written.                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN said the AADC is not necessarily happy               
 with this.  The university regents are not happy about being                  
 removed from the board.  Additionally, the executive director is              
 not happy with having the board changed.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1368                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said the fiscal note was for increased travel and           
 honorarium expenses.  He expressed concern about not having                   
 testimony from the executive director.  However, the bill, which he           
 believes is a good one, would go to the House Finance Committee.              
                                                                               
 Number 1415                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN said the fiscal note is arguable.  It is             
 there because of adding a third commercial space member, who will             
 likely come from outside the state.  He suggested adding an Alaska            
 school teacher and eliminating the third commercial space member              
 would result in a zero fiscal note.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1467                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA made a motion to delete one "aerospace or               
 commercial space" and insert one "Alaska K-12 educator".  That                
 would eliminate the out-of-state person and thus the $10,000 fiscal           
 note.                                                                         
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG closed public testimony.  He expressed concern              
 because this is a business enterprise.  He agrees with                        
 Representative Kubina's idea conceptually and that the more public            
 input, the better.  He noted that this had already created a little           
 "flap" on Kodiak Island.  However, this is rocket science.  The               
 corporation is moving from an incubation period into a business               
 period.  He believes hard and fast decisions need to be made on the           
 board by business-related people.  He said, however, he was                   
 certainly willing to listen to compromise suggestions if the                  
 sponsor is willing.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1566                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN said he had already spoken to the                    
 executive director.  He referred to the "flap" on Kodiak and said             
 that occurred because all the business of the AADC has been done in           
 Anchorage.  Nobody is directly interacting with the people of                 
 Kodiak regarding a new rocket launch facility going in there.                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN stated, "We've been on AADC's case for               
 three years now to hire somebody to do the PR work in Kodiak, to be           
 the front person, to do the kind of things that naturally would be            
 done.  If you're putting a business into a new community, you go in           
 and do your PR work and do all the stuff that's necessary as a                
 business entity.  But you don't ignore them."  He suggested that              
 even with a school teacher member, the way it is structured with              
 two new business people plus the two aerospace or commercial space            
 members, that board should have the ability to do what it needs to.           
                                                                               
 Number 1620                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked about the ex officio board members.                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN said there is a Senate member and a House            
 member.                                                                       
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether an educator could be made an ex               
 officio member rather than a voting member.  He suggested that                
 educator could be from Kodiak.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1653                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN questioned whether they would get a person with           
 expertise in this field.  He discussed having a K-12 local teacher            
 who knew little about space versus someone living elsewhere in the            
 state who was knowledgeable and excited about it.  He said he had             
 no problem with replacing the public member with a K-12 educator.             
                                                                               
 Number 1693                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE said while he understands the need for the           
 board to have a high level of attention paid to it from the                   
 business end, he believes it still falls under the guise of state             
 government.  By putting an educator on the board, there is a large            
 potential for dissemination of information.  Instead of everything            
 going into the board, something would come out of it.  He suggested           
 the teacher did not need to be from the math or science field but             
 could teach economics or business, for example.  He cited the board           
 of regents, where 95 percent of members come from business                    
 backgrounds but there is a student regent with equal authority as             
 far as voting.                                                                
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether there were strong feelings about              
 this member being ex officio or replacing someone else.                       
                                                                               
 Number 1793                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN referred to the fiscal note.  He said when           
 the bill passed the previous year with the exact same make-up as in           
 this bill, the AADC did not come forward with a $10,000 fiscal                
 note.  He again stated that the AADC is the one opposing this bill.           
                                                                               
 Number 1820                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked whether an ex officio member would have            
 the same ability as a full-fledged member to travel to board                  
 meetings and participate, but only be unable to vote.  If that is             
 the case, to him it is a toss-up.  However, if an ex officio member           
 does not get the same information everyone else does or is not                
 allowed to participate in executive sessions, for example, he                 
 believes that is a concern.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1872                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON, who had recently joined the meeting,              
 asked whether there was an amendment before the committee.                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said they were talking conceptually about it.               
                                                                               
 Number 1887                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA offered a written amendment, which read:                
                                                                               
      Page 2, line 16:                                                         
      delete "public member" and insert "public school educator"               
                                                                               
 Number 1907                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN referred to Representative Brice's                   
 question and said currently in statute for AADC, it spells out that           
 two members of the legislature shall be ex officio members.  It               
 also says voting and nonvoting members of the board are entitled to           
 per diem and travel expenses authorized.  Therefore, ex officio               
 members would be covered.                                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked whether there was access to executive              
 meetings as well.  He said he would assume that.                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN said he would assume that also.  However,            
 it does not specify executive sessions in statute; they would need            
 to look at the bylaws.                                                        
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA asked whether adding another person would               
 increase the fiscal note.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1946                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN restated that the previous year's bill               
 carried no fiscal note.                                                       
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said he had been leaning towards an ex officio              
 member.  However, by doing that, it would create a fiscal note, so            
 he was withdrawing that idea.                                                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN reiterated that he had no problem with               
 replacing the public member.  If they felt it necessary to replace            
 one space member, he would argue against it a bit but would not               
 oppose it.                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG concurred.  He reminded them that the business of           
 this business is to launch rockets.  The three aerospace and                  
 commercial space members are fundamentally a de facto sales staff             
 for the corporation because of their worldwide connections within             
 that industry.  That is why they are on the board and why their               
 numbers are being increased.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 2006                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN said there is also a good possibility the            
 Governor might look at placing a school teacher as the public                 
 member anyway.  All this would do is designate a school teacher               
 instead of leaving it open-ended.                                             
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG suggested making the amendment permissive.                  
                                                                               
 Number 2023                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA said if the committee does not want to                  
 specify that, he would suggest saying "public school educator or              
 public member".  That would send a message indicating the desire              
 for a public educator but leave it open.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 2069                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated that the amendment to the amendment is to            
 put the words "public school educator or" before "public member".             
 He asked if there were any objections.  Hearing none, he advised              
 that the amendment to the amendment was adopted.                              
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there was any objection to the amendment           
 as amended.  There being none, the amendment was adopted.                     
                                                                               
 Number 2085                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA made a motion to move HB 208, as amended,               
 from committee with individual recommendations and a zero fiscal              
 note.                                                                         
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there was any objection.  There being              
 none, CSHB 208(L&C) moved from the House Labor and Commerce                   
 Standing Committee with a zero fiscal note.                                   
                                                                               
 HB 207 - EMPLOYER DRUG TESTING PROGRAM                                      
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG announced the next item of business was House               
 Bill No. 207, "An Act relating to employer drug and alcohol testing           
 programs."                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG called an at-ease at 4:08 p.m.  He called the               
 meeting back to order at 4:15 p.m.  He said HB 207 had been heard             
 previously and testimony was by invitation.  However, no one wished           
 to testify.  He closed public testimony.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 2150                                                                   
                                                                               
 JEFFREY LOGAN, Legislative Assistant to Representative Joe Green,             
 came forward to testify on behalf of the sponsor.  He referred to             
 a letter received from the Teamsters Local 959 dated April 7, 1997,           
 which more clearly specifies some concerns they voiced last week.             
 He reviewed these concerns for the committee.                                 
                                                                               
 MR. LOGAN noted that in regards to the Teamsters' number one                  
 concern, the sponsor opposes it.  The term "reasonable suspicion"             
 only appears three times in state statute without a definition;               
 only one time in case law, in a state court of appeals case, does             
 it appear with some definition.  The sponsor desires to replace               
 this term.  They asked the Teamsters for terminology from some of             
 their current agreements that would fit into .620(b) to achieve the           
 purpose they seek.  The Teamsters' legal staff hasn't had time to             
 do this yet but hope to do so by the time this legislation makes              
 its way to the House Judiciary Committee.                                     
                                                                               
 Number 2224                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. LOGAN continued that in relation to item two, in the committee            
 substitute, they could simply make a reference to federal standards           
 in the testing.  He felt this would achieve this objective.  He               
 felt the Teamsters' concern was that there is nothing in writing              
 that the levels of the five main drugs should or should not be.  If           
 Alaska simply adopts federal standards, he felt this would take               
 care of potential headaches.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 2259                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON noted that in looking over proposed                     
 amendments, almost every one has a legal implication.  He suggested           
 since the next committee of referral was the House Judiciary                  
 Committee, that the amendments be considered then.                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE agreed with this assessment, but he thought              
 Section 23.10.670 dealing with collective bargaining could be                 
 considered by the House Labor and Commerce Committee since it is so           
 concise.  He asked Mr. Logan to explain what this section does.               
                                                                               
 Number 2322                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. LOGAN stated that this language was inserted because in other             
 states, labor representatives have requested this type of language.           
 If their collective bargaining does come under the umbrella of this           
 legislation, then they should have the right to do this.  Organized           
 labor would prefer this section be removed, and the sponsor has no            
 problem with that.                                                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY stated that he was always reluctant to have            
 amendments handed to them and absorb the related testimony.  He               
 felt they should move the bill with the attached correspondence so            
 that the House Judiciary Committee could consider it.                         
                                                                               
 Number 2378                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN asked whether Representative Green had any                
 problem with addressing these amendments in the House Judiciary               
 Committee.                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. LOGAN responded that Representative Green has no problem                  
 addressing them, but adopting them there raises a few issues.                 
                                                                               
 Number 2390                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE stated that the only question he had related             
 to .670 and the fact that there have been issues raised on other              
 bills regarding rights of employees within collective bargaining              
 units being of a different standard.  He felt this establishes a              
 potential situation like this again.  If they pulled this out, they           
 could possibly "head this off at the pass" before this issue ever             
 arises, such as, "Well, these guys can do it because they're in a             
 collective bargaining agreement, but these guys can't because                 
 they're not."                                                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated that his reading of Section .670 is that             
 it would in effect negate any pre-bargained-for agreement by giving           
 full benefits of this legislation to the employer, notwithstanding            
 whatever the bargaining agreement said.  He took exception to what            
 Mr. Logan said earlier about this language not affecting existing             
 collective bargaining agreements.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 2449                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. LOGAN responded that he didn't say it wouldn't have an impact.            
 The point of this language is to allow for workers under a                    
 collective bargaining agreement, if they chose to adopt provisions            
 outside of the umbrella of the bill, to do so.                                
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-35, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 0012                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE stated that what this section could                      
 potentially do, under existing agreements where the testing methods           
 are not as tightly written as Representative Green's bill, is cause           
 problems since the lesser standard would be applied.                          
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN stated that if it was determined to be a lesser           
 standard with a collective bargaining agreement, someone would                
 still get the benefits, which means they avoid liability of being             
 sued.  His conversations with organized labor representatives                 
 indicate they would rather delete this and be on the same ground as           
 everyone else, on a level playing field.  They didn't necessarily             
 want any special benefits.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 0070                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said he appreciated this, but if they pass this             
 law, the level playing field is the law then.  He suggested that              
 they remove the word "not" from the section.  He noted that if the            
 collective bargaining agreement was consistent with policies                  
 provided for in statute, the employer could have the immunity.                
 Therefore, the collective bargaining agreement would have to be               
 consistent with the law in order to acquire immunity.  He noted               
 that this was better than taking it out altogether.                           
                                                                               
 MR. LOGAN stated that this assessment was correct.  This would be             
 a good compromise.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 0094                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA noted that this option would dictate what               
 goes into a collective bargaining agreement.                                  
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG responded that this would have to be bargained              
 for.  If an employer wants to bargain for immunity, then he has to            
 be consistent with the law.  The unions would have to agree to this           
 in the bargain.                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 0107                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA added that by pulling it out, they have the             
 testing program and they would be immune no matter what the                   
 collective bargaining unit says, because the law will supersede any           
 collective bargaining unit.  However, by taking the word "not" out,           
 it seems like a mandate to be there.                                          
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated that this was precisely why he                   
 suggested the committee not attempt to amend this legislation since           
 this issue has legal implications.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 0150                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA offered that the committee ought to do their            
 own work and said he didn't know what kind of deals have been made            
 on this legislation.  He said he was not big about moving it on to            
 the next committee where the sponsor of this legislation is the               
 chairman.  He'd rather the House Labor and Commerce Committee spend           
 the time and effort to make sure it's a good bill.                            
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said no deals have been made.                               
                                                                               
 Number 0186                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG agreed that on this particular labor issue, it              
 belongs in the purview of this committee.  As to the other                    
 amendments, he agrees with Representative Hudson.                             
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE stated that the last clause of this section              
 should be cut out, after the phrase, "even if the policy is not               
 consistent with AS 23.10.600 - 23.10.699."  Drug testing must be at           
 this point in time up to standards with .670.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 0234                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said he would prefer to go with, on page 7, line            
 5, deleting the words "even" and "not".                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN reiterated that the sponsor included this                 
 language with the idea that they would protect the unions.  The               
 unions said they don't want it, and the sponsor said he doesn't               
 care.  Representative Ryan asked why they were addressing this                
 language issue.  He wondered why they just didn't delete it.                  
                                                                               
 Number 0253                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG thought this option would encourage both the                
 unions and employers to bargain, based on this law, and they could            
 even adopt it by reference in their contract, which would be a very           
 noncontroversial method of handling this situation.  It gives both            
 sides an argument that there is an existing state law and in order            
 for an employer to have immunity, they must go through these other            
 procedures, provided in the law, to protect the employee.  Leaving            
 this section alone is not fair either.  It would have a negative              
 impact on the worker or negate the collective bargaining process.             
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG suggested moving an amendment on page 7, line 5,            
 to delete the words "even" and "not."                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY made a motion to adopt that amendment.                 
                                                                               
 Number 0302                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JERRY SANDERS objected.  He believes they should               
 remove the whole Section 23.10.670.                                           
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG requested a roll call vote.  Representatives                
 Cowdery, Hudson and Rokeberg voted yes.  Representatives Brice,               
 Kubina, Ryan and Sanders voted no.  Amendment 1 failed.                       
                                                                               
 Number 0378                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS made a motion to remove Section 23.10.670 in           
 its entirety.                                                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG objected for the purpose of discussion.                     
                                                                               
 Number 0388                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY also objected and noted that these changes             
 had legal ramifications.  The information from the Teamsters came             
 to the committee late, and he felt this issue should be debated in            
 the House Judiciary Committee.                                                
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG removed his objection.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 0411                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. LOGAN commented that they are committed to working with                   
 employer and employee groups, which both agree to a drug-free work            
 place.  He clarified that while they don't have a problem with                
 removing this section, they haven't had a chance to look at this              
 issue.  They want to research the ramifications of taking this                
 section out.  He stated, "I want make sure the committee                      
 understands that if we do have an opportunity, which I'm sure we              
 will, to look at it more in-depth in the next couple of days and it           
 reappears in a Judiciary version, I hope the committee understands            
 that we're not trying to go around anyone's back."                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY removed his objection.                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG advised that as the objection was removed,                  
 Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 0465                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN made a motion and asked unanimous consent to              
 move HB 207, as amended, out of committee with individual                     
 recommendations and accompanying zero fiscal note.                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA objected for question purposes.  He asked               
 whether the chairman believes all remaining labor issues involved             
 with this legislation should be under the purview of the House                
 Judiciary Committee, along with the statement the sponsor's                   
 representative has made.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 0492                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said absolutely.  He commented that he is a                 
 member of the House Judiciary Committee.  He promised the House               
 Labor and Commerce Committee and the bill sponsor that there would            
 be a full review of the Teamsters' letter, as well as issues                  
 relating to subjects that letter addresses.  He also said he would            
 work further on the section in question to accomplish everything              
 the House Labor and Commerce Committee has attempted.                         
                                                                               
 Number 0526                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA withdrew his objection.                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG, hearing no further objection, stated that CSHB
 207(L&C) was moved out of the House Labor and Commerce Committee.             
                                                                               
 Number 0534                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG called an at-ease at 4:38 p.m.  He called the               
 meeting back to order at 4:39 p.m.                                            
                                                                               
 HB 218 - OMNIBUS INSURANCE REFORM                                           
                                                                               
 Number 0539                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG announced the final item of business was House              
 Bill No. 218, "An Act relating to regulation and examination of               
 insurers and insurance agents; relating to kinds of insurance;                
 relating to payment of insurance taxes and to required insurance              
 reserves; relating to insurance policies; relating to regulation of           
 capital, surplus, and investments by insurers; relating to hospital           
 and medical service corporations; and providing for an effective              
 date."                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 0564                                                                   
                                                                               
 MARIANNE K. BURKE, Director, Division of Insurance, Department of             
 Commerce and Economic Development (DCED), came forward to testify.            
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG noted that before the committee was version 0-              
 LS0850\E, Ford, 4/3/97, adopted at the previous hearing.  He asked            
 Ms. Burke to confirm that this is the same language as in the                 
 companion Senate bill.                                                        
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE affirmed that.                                                      
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Ms. Burke to describe the amount of review            
 the bill has had on the Senate side.                                          
                                                                               
 Number 0606                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE explained that she had gone through the bill section by             
 section in testimony before the Senate Labor and Commerce                     
 Committee.  She had provided reasons for the proposed legislation,            
 what prompted it, and comments, if any, received from the industry,           
 the producers and the public.                                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if that generated the committee substitute.           
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said yes.  In her opinion, it had a thorough review in              
 the Senate.                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG requested a section-by-section review.  He                  
 advised there is also a sectional analysis in the bill file.                  
                                                                               
 Number 0640                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said the first section clarifies something already in               
 practice.  When volunteers serve on technical committees, they are            
 usually from industry.  Transportation is paid and costs are                  
 reimbursed by their companies.  However, volunteers could                     
 conceivably claim per diem and transportation expenses if it is not           
 clear in Title 21 that this is voluntary participation.  The                  
 division has requested that clarification.                                    
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE discussed Section 2.  The division is required by statute           
 to submit an annual report to each member of the legislature.  The            
 original language was written years ago.  When the division                   
 reviewed the statutes last year, they discovered much of the                  
 information required was no longer available, much less relevant.             
 The division is asking that the language be updated and modernized            
 to include the information that the division submits as to                    
 companies authorized to do business in the state and regulatory               
 actions, if any, taken against them.  This would include                      
 information regarding a company put into liquidation.                         
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 3 is a clarifying section.  According to               
 statute, when the division conducts a statutory examination of an             
 insurance company, the company must reimburse the state for costs             
 incurred.  Currently, the division bills and is paid for                      
 transportation, salaries and benefits of examiners, out-of-pocket             
 expenses and so forth.  They are asking that this be expanded to              
 include "what's actually happening."                                          
                                                                               
 Number 0773                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked what examinations are given.                          
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE explained that the division is required by statute to do            
 financial examinations of companies doing business.                           
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said this is not a test, then, but a financial              
 examination.                                                                  
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said there are financial examinations and market                    
 examinations.  They see that companies are abiding by contractual             
 arrangements with policy holders and are not in violation of unfair           
 trade practices under Chapter 36 of Title 21.  She said it is a               
 condition of doing business in all 50 states that companies must              
 submit to an examination when called for, and Alaska Statutes spell           
 out specific times.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 0821                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Sections 4 and 5 relate to collection of premium               
 tax.  The division is responsible for collecting, on behalf of the            
 general fund, tax on premiums written in Alaska.  Currently, the              
 statute says the insurance company will pay that tax on or before             
 March 1 each year.  For these two sections, as well as sections               
 pertaining to other lines of insurance, the division is proposing             
 to collect those taxes on a quarterly basis.  The division is also            
 proposing that the director be allowed to use modern technology               
 such as electronic transfer of funds so the state will receive the            
 money more promptly.  She advised that she had anticipated this               
 being fought by "our domestics," which are already set up and                 
 already reporting on a quarterly basis in many states.                        
                                                                               
 Number 0899                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether this is where the state is picking            
 up an extra $485,000.                                                         
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE affirmed that.  When talking about close to $30 million,            
 receiving it a few days earlier and on a quarterly basis, as                  
 opposed to yearly, has a significant financial impact.                        
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether that is money generated from                  
 interest.                                                                     
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said yes.                                                           
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether that is applicable to the DCED or             
 is general fund money.                                                        
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied that it is general fund money.                              
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said that is a calculation on general fund cash             
 management, not premium income cash management.                               
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE concurred.                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 0933                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN referred to page 3, beginning with line 26, and           
 continuing to page 4, line 10.  He asked whether that is existing             
 language with the exception of the portions for collecting.                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said that is correct.  Just the underlined portion is               
 new.                                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 0964                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN asked Ms. Burke to provide the history of why             
 and where this particular amount of tax was ascertained to be                 
 equitable, as well as why the structure is set up to not allow                
 people to take operating expenses under their claims.  He said he             
 was trying to figure the margin with this particular tax.                     
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said she would be happy to provide that.  "It is a most             
 interesting history," she remarked.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 0997                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether this is similar to many other                 
 premium taxes "where you take the gross amount of premiums paid,              
 less the losses, and that's where you calculate the tax, on the               
 remainder of that calculation."                                               
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied that the property and casualty companies are                
 taxed a straight 2.7 percent of the premium.  The hospital and                
 medical corporations are taxed 6.5 percent of their premiums less             
 their expenses.  Title insurance is taxed at yet another rate.                
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE explained, "If you take the actual expenses as reported             
 in their annual statements to all states in the union, there is               
 very little difference in the way that it works out, if you take a            
 gross premium less expenses.  Over time, there is going to be a               
 variation between the bottom line.  Sometimes it will be higher,              
 sometimes it will be lower.  But historically and for ease of                 
 collection, most states have a straight percentage of premium,                
 depending on the type of insurance it is."  She noted that surplus            
 lines, which are lines not admitted in the state of Alaska, pay an            
 additional 1 percent for the added risk involved and the additional           
 oversight the division must give them because it has no statutory             
 right of examination.                                                         
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if they were at Section 6 now.                        
                                                                               
 Number 1124                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said yes.  This is a simple matter of requesting that               
 insurers that do business in Alaska inform the division when they             
 change their address, phone number, articles of incorporation or              
 other information that they had presented to the division to obtain           
 a certificate of authority.  The division believes 90 days is a               
 reasonable time.  She said it is surprising that many companies do            
 not bother to notify them of such changes.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1170                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE discussed Section 7.  It basically levels the playing               
 field.  Domestic insurers are already required to maintain records            
 for a certain period of time.  The division is asking that all                
 insurance companies maintain their records for a uniform,                     
 reasonable length of time.                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG noted that it specifies ten years.  He asked what           
 the length of time is now.                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said it varies.                                                     
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether it varies with different types of             
 lines.                                                                        
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said in Alaska, for domestic companies, it is ten years.            
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE referred to Section 8 and said it is an interesting                 
 dilemma the division caught last year "that through inadvertent               
 statutes several years ago, we are requiring that companies from              
 other countries who want to come into Alaska and do business                  
 provide us with a certificate of solvency from their country."  She           
 said unfortunately, there is only one other country in the world              
 that provides such a certificate.  It was never anyone's intent to            
 exclude every country in the world except Great Britain, which the            
 current statute does.  She said even though a company has no                  
 certificate of solvency from their country, it still must have its            
 audited financial statements.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1294                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN referred to page 5, line 8.  He said a                    
 trustee's basic job is administration and keeping records.  He                
 noted that the legislature is requiring audits from everybody;                
 those go in a drawer and are not looked at.  Meanwhile, millions of           
 dollars are paid to certified public accountants to do this.  He              
 asked whether it would be acceptable if a person could come up with           
 a certified audit in the normal course of business.  He said he               
 does not want this language to preclude that.                                 
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied that the trust referred to here is the U.S. trust           
 for companies from foreign countries doing business in the U.S.  It           
 arose during World War II, when companies from Germany, for                   
 example, could not pay claims from U.S. policy holders.  All states           
 agreed one trust agreement would be established for all entities              
 wishing to do business in the United States.  A certain dollar                
 amount would have to be on deposit in a U.S. bank to assure U.S.              
 policy holders of having money to pay claims.  She said to the                
 extent the word "trust" is used here, that is the context in which            
 it is used; she cited an example.  She said those trusts are                  
 audited one time, and only once, for all states.  "We do not do a             
 separate audit, nor do we have the authority to do a separate audit           
 of a trust that has already been audited for all members of the               
 states," Ms. Burke added.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1486                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN said nobody with a considerable amount of money           
 would put it in a U.S. bank, which would provide a negative return            
 and be throwing it down the drain.                                            
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE offered to discuss it with Representative Ryan further,             
 stating that it is in U.S. banks.                                             
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether this is a common business practice.           
 MS. BURKE replied, "And it has been for the past 50 years."                   
                                                                               
 Number 1539                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 9 is an interesting situation.  As the law             
 is written, only property and casualty companies can provide stop-            
 loss insurance, which is an insurance that kicks in when a certain            
 dollar level is reached.  She explained, "You decide that you will            
 keep the first $25,000 or $100,000, or whatever, uninsured; that's            
 just your risk.  But you don't want your risk to be unlimited.  So            
 you buy stop-loss insurance."  As increasing numbers of employers             
 look to self-insure for health insurance, they are purchasing stop-           
 loss insurance.                                                               
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if that is like reinsurance.                          
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said it is a form of reinsurance but somewhat different             
 in that it contractually spells out the dollar amount for each                
 party.  It is sometimes referred to as "self-insurance retention."            
 Section 9 would permit companies writing health insurance in Alaska           
 to also write stop-loss insurance.                                            
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 10 defines stop-loss insurance in statute.             
 "Right now, it refers only to property and casualty," she added.              
 "Again, this is to bring us into the modern age."                             
                                                                               
 Number 1648                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN noted that the state would be self-insuring               
 beginning July 1.  He asked whether the state will buy one of these           
 policies to cover the portion over and above what they themselves             
 would put up.                                                                 
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said she does not know, as they are not involved in that.           
                                                                               
 Number 1690                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 11 clarifies that the domestic insurer will            
 provide information.  Right now, the division must send a letter              
 requesting information each year.  They want some efficiency and              
 for the insurer to automatically submit that information.                     
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE explained that Section 12 is also an efficiency                     
 provision, clearly defining "risk based capital instructions".                
 This would permit the director, after holding an open hearing in              
 accordance with appropriate statutes, to adopt those instructions             
 for the insurers.  She stated, "They must have those instructions.            
 Currently, we have to do it through regulation, which is very                 
 costly and inefficient."                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1756                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE discussed Section 13, which establishes minimum reserves            
 for health insurers.  Sections 13, 14 and 15 apply to actuarial               
 determinations of how much an insurance company should have                   
 available.  She emphasized these are minimum standards.  Comments             
 the division had received from insurers representing 60 percent of            
 all insurers in the country have supported this methodology.                  
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 16 is to protect both policy holders and               
 companies.  If there is an agreement to hold securities, the                  
 custodian must indemnify them if they lose those securities by                
 theft, mysterious disappearance or destruction, for example.  She             
 said it is a good business practice, and most companies have it in            
 their agreements.  However, insurance companies have not been able            
 to get this kind of an agreement.  "And we feel that that is                  
 important for the security of everyone," she stated.                          
                                                                               
 Number 1850                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 17 is editorial, adding the word "or".                 
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 18 eliminates a redundancy in statute.  She            
 stated, "If an attorney in fact of a reciprocal insurer such as               
 Alaska Timber is only providing services to Alaska Timber ... and             
 they are licensed appropriately, they should not have to have an              
 additional license to do work that they're not doing.  We would               
 like to be as efficient as we could."                                         
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE stated that Section 19 codifies a current procedure.                
 When a licensee applies for a license, they submit the information,           
 certified, to the division.  She explained, "We ask them to do so             
 under oath.  We have found that it is much easier to not grant a              
 license than take a license away when we find out someone has been            
 convicted of embezzlement or someone has been convicted of ripping            
 off a trust account.  And that is currently being done.  We would             
 just like to codify it."                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1941                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE referred to Section 20, relating to shared commissions.             
 Currently, if any licensee gives kick-backs, which is what shared             
 commissions are, that is illegal.  But a person who is not licensed           
 can give kick-backs on these commissions.  The division wants an              
 even playing field.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1990                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN asked why someone should not be able to help              
 somebody else and be paid compensation for that help.                         
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied that the cost of shared commissions or kick-backs           
 is passed on to policy holders.  She said part of the division's              
 responsibility, as defined by the Alaska Supreme Court, is to                 
 ensure there are no unfair trade practices.  "If I give you a                 
 portion of my commission and then pass that cost on to the                    
 consumer, I am charging that consumer more than what would be                 
 charged to another consumer," she stated.  "And that has been                 
 considered and ruled by the supreme court to be an unfair trade               
 practice."                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 2108                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether there is any tradition or custom in           
 the insurance industry of paying referral fees to any outside                 
 party.                                                                        
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied, "Not anywhere in the United States."                       
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked why they were worried about prohibiting it.           
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied, "Because they don't call it a referral fee.                
 They say, `I'm just taking part of my commission and giving it to             
 you.'"                                                                        
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN said that is standard practice in a lot of                
 businesses.                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether insurers were allowed to pay any              
 kind of referral fee to another business entity that refers                   
 business to them.                                                             
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said no.  That is true throughout the United States.                
                                                                               
 Number 2172                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 21 is to conform the division's licensing              
 with the welfare bill passed the previous year.  It permits a                 
 temporary license.                                                            
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 22 is to modernize language.  Currently, the           
 division can only serve an individual a notice by certified mail.             
 The previous year, an agent had a totally computerized business               
 with a "remote delete ability."  The division obtained a court                
 order to go in immediately because of the fear that as soon as the            
 agent was served notice, he would delete those records.  She                  
 advised that the agent has been convicted of misappropriating                 
 $160,000 of policy holder money.  "We would like to be able to                
 serve notices in person," she stated.                                         
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 23 is to ensure that a person illegally                
 transacting insurance business cannot receive financial rewards for           
 doing so.  She advised that people from the Lower 48 sell bogus               
 insurance policies in Alaska and keep the money, for example.                 
                                                                               
 Number 2324                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 24 is a barrier that requires "that a third-           
 party administrator can be a very reputable third-party                       
 administrator as a spinoff of another very reputable company, but             
 unless they've got two years of stand-alone financial statements,             
 we cannot issue them a license."  The division would like to be               
 able to look at businesses for the time they have been in business            
 and make "a reasoned decision" on that.                                       
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Sections 25 and 26 recognize that Lloyd's is no                
 longer an entity unto itself; there are both personal and                     
 incorporated syndicates, which these sections establish as                    
 recognized entities within the state to do business under statutes            
 formerly reserved for Lloyd's only.                                           
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-36, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 0006                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE advised that Sections 27 and 28 are the same scenario               
 described earlier about collecting premium tax on a quarterly basis           
 and using modern technology to do so, only these sections apply to            
 surplus lines.                                                                
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 29 is a clarification using the proper name            
 for the entity referenced in that particular section, which is the            
 Comprehensive Health Insurance Association.                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 30 is a requirement that has been subject to           
 the review process of the National Association of Insurance                   
 Commissioners (NAIC) model unfair trade practices act, which                  
 requires an insurance company to maintain records of complaints               
 they receive, which the division then reviews during a "market                
 conduct examination."                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 0111                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 31 is to provide that an insurance policy              
 can only be "nonrenewed" at the anniversary date.  This only                  
 applies to personal property or casualty.  It provides assurance              
 that rates will not go up every month or two.  "But you still have            
 the right to rerate at the end of the policy period," she added.              
                                                                               
 Number 0157                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY proposed an example and asked whether an               
 insurance company has the right to raise rates for any reason.                
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied, "Property and casualty, they must raise rates              
 uniformly, and they must get our approval.  They've got to show us            
 that it is justified.  And they do have criteria that has to be               
 filed with us.  If you have a history of claims of so many a                  
 period, then that is a legitimate reason to look at it as an                  
 underwriting criteria."                                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY said he would contact Ms. Burke later.                 
                                                                               
 Number 0337                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked for confirmation that property and casualty           
 insurance does not include auto insurance.                                    
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied, "Yes, it does."                                            
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said under the present statute, if there was                
 going to be a "nonrenewal," only 20 days' notice was required to an           
 individual policy holder.                                                     
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said that is correct except for a corporation, for which            
 it is 45 days.                                                                
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG suggested that is not fair to "John Q. Public."             
 It is existing statute not covered by the bill, however.                      
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said she believes it is 30 days but is unsure.                      
                                                                               
 Number 0413                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE advised that Section 33 is a requirement that if insurers           
 and licensees have people who are embezzling or guilty of                     
 defalcation, they must notify the director.  The division wishes to           
 avoid the prevalent situation where a producer goes from one state            
 to another.  "If we haven't been notified of it, we are at their              
 mercy," she said.  "Currently, all insurance companies must notify            
 us.  But agencies, et cetera, do not."                                        
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked what "defalcation" means.                             
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said embezzlement and defalcation are basically the same.           
 Defalcation, however, does not require proof of deliberate intent.            
                                                                               
 Number 0526                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 34 is to put in the term "construction                 
 industry," omitted in HB 237 two years before.                                
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 35 clarifies that the issue of rates for               
 individual health insurance is not a separate issue when talking              
 about Medicare supplemental insurance.  She explained, "The wording           
 makes it sound like they are two different things, when in fact,              
 using federal language, it is Medicare supplemental individual                
 health insurance.  It is a clarification that has created some                
 major problems, and we would like to be consistent."                          
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE stated that Section 36 is long overdue.  It is requiring            
 that insurance companies coordinate benefits.  Currently, a person            
 can make money on the "business of being sick," collecting more               
 than is spent.  There is no statutory prohibition against it.  Ms.            
 Burke cited an example involving a state employee who collected               
 $65,000 in excess of what she paid because two insurance companies            
 did not bother to coordinate benefits.  This drives up the cost of            
 health care.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 0711                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG noted there are many instances where two wage               
 earners in a family have different coverage, with one covering the            
 deductible, for example.                                                      
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE responded, "Up to 100 percent.  That's still permissible.           
 But it shouldn't pay you 200 percent."                                        
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if that particular 100 percent provision is           
 in statute now.                                                               
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said this would put it there.  Coordination of benefits             
 is defined as no greater than 100 percent.                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether that is being added with this                 
 provision.                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied, "And requiring the insurance companies to                  
 coordinate those.  If you're covered under your policy for 80                 
 percent and your spouse has a policy that also covers you, they               
 will pay the additional 20 percent.  So you're reimbursed fully for           
 all of your cost."                                                            
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked:  If he had two policies on a piece of                
 personal property and it was stolen, could he make two claims?                
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied, "Up to the limits of your policy on each one of            
 the claims, yes."                                                             
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether the earlier discussion applies only           
 to health insurance.                                                          
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE affirmed that.                                                      
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG suggested if he had paid the money for two                  
 premiums, he should be able to double-dip.                                    
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied that under health insurance, a person could                 
 manipulate it.  "If you had your vehicle stolen, it can only be               
 stolen one time," she noted.  "But it is possible to go into the              
 doctor every couple of days for a complaint."                                 
                                                                               
 Number 0839                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 37 clarifies when the insurance coverage               
 will change as a result of legislative mandates.  It will either be           
 the effective date of the law or the next renewal date.  There has            
 been a major problem of trying to change those provisions in mid-             
 policy.                                                                       
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE advised that Section 38 puts into statute that rates not            
 be excessive, inadequate or unfairly discriminatory for health                
 insurance.  That is already a requirement for all other types of              
 insurance.                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 39 is premium tax again, as it applies to              
 the title insurance industry.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 0911                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 40 is the result of a task force formed to             
 look into title insurance, as a result of legislation introduced              
 the previous year.  "This is the consensus of the industry and the            
 division that investment income should be an element considered,"             
 she stated.                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked:  Considered for what?                                
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied, "In determining whether the cost is excessive,             
 inadequate or discriminatory."                                                
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether that is for calculating premium               
 rates.                                                                        
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said yes.  She noted that a bill introduced the previous            
 year related to title insurance.  She stated, "And one of the                 
 problems had always been for us to get the information we needed to           
 determine if it was adequate, not excessive, because there was no             
 definition of what went into those categories.  Investment income             
 on the collected premiums is a major source of income and should be           
 considered."                                                                  
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE advised that Section 41 is in response to a request by a            
 domestic insurer.  She said 95 percent of its shareholders reside             
 in Barrow.  However, statutes require that their annual meeting be            
 held in the city of their principal office, which is Anchorage.               
 She stated, "We are requesting that upon showing of good cause,               
 that the director be allowed to permit them to have an annual                 
 meeting in a location other than their principal place of                     
 business."                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1046                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE explained that Section 42 refers to what is known in the            
 industry as "surplus notes," a loan put into the equity section               
 rather than on the liability side.  She stated, "We would like to             
 be able to approve such a transaction before they enter into it and           
 that they only be allowed to repay that money with the permission             
 of the director.  What happens is a parent company will infuse $10            
 million to make their subsidiary's balance sheet look good, but               
 it's not really a loan.  They put it in, $10 million cash and $10             
 million of equity.  But they expect to get it back.  We just want             
 to be able to know what they are doing and approve when they pay              
 this money back, so as not to put the shareholders or the policy              
 holders at risk.  This is in statute in most other states; it has             
 not been addressed in Alaska."                                                
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked what surplus funds are.                               
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said they call this note a "surplus note."  Although they           
 infuse money, when the parent company needs some back, they take it           
 straight out of equity.                                                       
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether they were meeting some underwriting           
 requirements and their equity positions with this surplus note.               
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said, "With a pseudo-loan.  We like to think of it as               
 creative, and we want to know when they're involved in creative               
 accounting."                                                                  
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether this would be a burden on                     
 companies.                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied, "None of our domestics, with the exception of              
 one that is in financial trouble, has ever attempted to do it."               
                                                                               
 Number 1182                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 43 is simplification.  She stated, "And it             
 gets back to what I described earlier.  If an individual is acting            
 as attorney in fact for a wholly-owned subsidiary and no other                
 company, that they would not need to have an additional license."             
 She said there is such a thing as overkill in licensing and that it           
 does not add assurance.                                                       
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE defined companies:  A domestic is an Alaska company; a              
 foreign is a U.S. company; and an alien is from another country.              
                                                                               
 Number 1255                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE advised that Sections 44 and 45 apply to the "joint                 
 insurance arrangement" (JIA).  Current statute requires the JIA to            
 provide two different reports, one to the legislature and one to              
 the director.  She explained the JIA is a group of governmental               
 entities, political subdivisions and school districts to which the            
 legislature granted authority to enter into self-insurance many               
 years ago.  "We have no authority to regulate them," she stated.              
 "The regulation is entirely the responsibility of the legislature.            
 But we were receiving a report from them, which we can just file."            
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether the Municipality of Anchorage was             
 self-insured for liability insurance.                                         
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said they are not part of the JIA, which is usually                 
 smaller political subdivisions.                                               
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said under this section, the JIA would file the same                
 report with the division as with the legislature; it would also               
 give them additional time to complete the report.  She explained,             
 "Right now, they're not in compliance with law because the time               
 given them is not realistic.  And they had asked for the additional           
 time, which we agree makes sense.  We'd rather have an accurate               
 report than a report that's rushed to us."                                    
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said as she reads it, this group is allowed to self-                
 insure because they have the ability to tax.  They can, if faced              
 with a severe, catastrophic loss, raise the money through taxation.           
 The legislature has been careful to not expand that arrangement to            
 other entities lacking that kind of fall-back.                                
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether they have a "mutual aid agreement."           
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied, "They enter into an agreement where they share             
 any losses among themselves.  They have been quite successful.                
 They've been very conservative.  They started out fully funding,              
 putting all the necessary funds into the JIA.  They run it exactly            
 like an insurance company."                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG suggested it is a huge jump from 60 to 150 days.            
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said that is correct.  However, they are required to give           
 an actuarial opinion on their reserves.  It usually takes from 30             
 to 60 days to close the books on a company.                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether this is an annual report.                     
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE affirmed that.  She stated, "The actuary cannot begin               
 their work until after the books are fully closed."                           
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked how they did it before.                               
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied, "They didn't."                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1469                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE advised that Section 46 has to do with liquidations of              
 insurance companies.  She cited an example from the l980s where a             
 company that sold workers' compensation insurance went into                   
 liquidation.  The division has been trying to close that estate for           
 almost ten years.  However, whenever they get ready to close it,              
 the state of Washington files another claim against it.                       
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE explained, "We would like to be able to avoid the cost of           
 litigating every single claim and ask the judge to decide whether             
 or not the receiver's decision is valid, and put an end to it."               
 She said the only people who make money on this are receivers and             
 attorneys.  The policy holders and the guarantee funds that put up            
 the money are still waiting to be paid off.  She said, "We have               
 more than 100 percent that we can return to these people.  But we             
 can't because of these constant claims.  And we have to defend, and           
 that just erodes the estate."                                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether this language would cut off these             
 claims.                                                                       
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said that is a good question.  She stated, "No, the                 
 liquidation procedure is a very detailed set of procedure.  It sets           
 a time for the judge to bar claims.  They have so many years in               
 which to come forward with claims.  This legislation would address            
 those claims that come in after bar dates and are called                      
 `contingent claims.'  You still have to litigate them.  Throughout            
 the country, receivers are charged with standing in the shoes of              
 the company.  If they exercise judgment outside of the statutory              
 authority, the judge has the right and the responsibility to                  
 overrule them.  This particular statute would simply say that when            
 the judge says, `That's it,' that is, in fact, it."  She said she             
 hopes in her lifetime to see some of these closed.  This will help.           
                                                                               
 Number 1620                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE explained Sections 47 and 48.  They update terminology to           
 recognize that there are managed care arrangements within the                 
 traditional indemnity companies.  The terminology is archaic and              
 the division wants to bring that up to date.                                  
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 49 conforms the form filing requirements for           
 medical hospital service corporations, "which in our case is Blue             
 Cross," to the same as all other insurers offering the same line of           
 business.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1663                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE advised that Section 50 is to even the playing field                
 again.  Statute requires hospital and medical corporations to file            
 their rating formulas with the division.  This is proprietary                 
 information.  Blue Cross and Alaska Vision are the only two such              
 corporations in Alaska, and no other insurer has to do this.  So              
 the division immediately gets requests from all the other insurers            
 for freedom of information to access the proprietary information              
 and obtain their competitors' formulas.                                       
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked how they were addressing this.                        
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied that on each piece of information, they rule that           
 it is proprietary and deny the right to it; this can be challenged            
 and dragged out for some time.  The division wants to say that                
 proprietary formulas do not have to be filed with them.  If the               
 division needs to see formulas, they can go to that company and               
 look at them without bringing them into the division and subjecting           
 them to a raid by competitors.                                                
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG suggested if the division went to a company to              
 review files, that would become part of the division's files and              
 therefore be accessible under the freedom of information act.                 
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied, "Our exam files are confidential."                         
                                                                               
 Number 1846                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 51 is for consistency.  Currently, the                 
 hospital medical groups, Blue Cross and Alaska Vision, do not have            
 to have the same reserves as other health insurers; however, they             
 are in the same business.  The division would like for anyone in              
 the health business to have the same criteria for reserves.                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked what Blue Cross says about this.                      
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied, "They are currently doing this, but they don't             
 have to.  And if they chose to change it, they could do so and we             
 could not say anything.  They have concurred with this bill."                 
                                                                               
 Number 1961                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE referred to Section 52 and said, "We're talking about the           
 auto policies and the nonrenewal.  This just makes it clear it does           
 not apply to the seven-day policies that you can get on rental                
 cars.  This is a totally different animal than your personal car."            
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Section 53 is a result of some companies trying a              
 "flanking motion" against Alaska policy holders.  She stated, "They           
 have said that they don't issue policies, they issue certificates             
 of insurance, and therefore, they're not subject to our safeguards            
 and they are not subject to compliance with our laws.  This would             
 simply provide that no matter what they call it, if it's insurance,           
 they are subject to Alaska law."  This arose from an insurance                
 company refusing to place a newborn on a family policy by saying              
 although Alaska allows 31 days to put a newborn on a policy, that             
 company did not have to comply because they were writing a                    
 certificate, not a policy, in Alaska.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 2033                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE referred to Section 54 (misstating it as Section 57) and            
 said it defines financial statements.  She reported that one                  
 company had tried to put together its own in-house financial                  
 statements, calling them financial statements for purposes of being           
 admitted.  She stated, "That was not the intent.  It was to be                
 financial statements presented in accordance with generally                   
 accepted accounting principles and certified by an independent                
 accountant, not done by the bookkeeper without full disclosure."              
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG, referring to language on page 26, lines 22 and             
 23, asked who an "accountant that holds a substantially equivalent            
 designation" would be.  He asked whether there are anything except            
 certified public accountants (CPAs) in the U.S.                               
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said Canada calls them "chartered accountants."                     
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether Section 55 was the chapter on                 
 Lloyd's.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 2101                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE stated, "In 1995, the entire chapter was superseded, but            
 we forgot to repeal the old chapter."                                         
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked what it was superseded by.                            
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied, "By AS 21.09.310."  She said that was SB 53,               
 introduced in 1994 and passed in 1995.                                        
                                                                               
 Number 2158                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE noted that the final two sections, Sections 56 and 57,              
 provide for effective dates.                                                  
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked her to explain reasons for the differences.           
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied, "Those that are applying to premium tax, we                
 don't want them to have to apply two different ways within one                
 year.  That's why we're asking them that they be effective at the             
 beginning of a calendar year, since all insurance companies report            
 on a calendar-year basis."                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said Section 56 was for the premium tax.                    
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied that Sections 4, 5, 27 and 28 are also premium              
 tax.  She stated, "Section 29 is replacing a name, the proper name            
 of the Comprehensive Health Insurance Association.  Again, that's             
 on a calendar basis; they would have to change all their forms mid-           
 year if it became effective July 1."  She specified she was                   
 referring to effective dates other than July 1.                               
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG suggested those were in Sections 4, 5, 25, 26,              
 27, 28 and 39.                                                                
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE countered with Sections 4, 5, 27 and 28.                            
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated, "Well, they're not in the bill.  It's on            
 the sectional of 29, but ... 29 is not in the bill."                          
                                                                               
 AN UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER suggested that needs to be put in there.              
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE concurred.                                                          
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG suggested maybe that "tweak" could be made in the           
 Senate bill.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 2290                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE stated, "Sections 25 through 28, that apply to the                  
 syndicates, that is correct.  It should be effective date at the              
 beginning of a calendar year, because again, they are reporting on            
 a calendar year."                                                             
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said there seem to be other sections that are               
 inconsistent.  "The sectional and the bill are different as it                
 relates to the various sections under Section 56," he stated.                 
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE stated, "Mr. Chairman, you're right.  The sectional                 
 analysis is not correct."                                                     
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked how this should be amended.                           
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE stated, "We want Section 4 and 5, Section 25, which is              
 Lloyd's syndicate, 26, to be as of a calendar year.  Section 27 and           
 28, again refer to the premium tax."                                          
                                                                               
 AN UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER asked whether that would be on a calendar             
 year.                                                                         
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said yes.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 2340                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether Ms. Burke wanted to add Section 29.           
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied that Section 29 is July 1.  Section 39 is a                 
 calendar year.                                                                
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked, "So 29 is okay; it doesn't have to be in             
 Section 56?"                                                                  
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said that is correct.  She stated, "The sections that are           
 listed in the CS in Section 56 are correct."                                  
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked whether Sections 25 and 26 should be added,           
 and Sections 29 and 41 deleted, from the sectional analysis.                  
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE said, "That's correct.  And 30."                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked for confirmation that the bill is okay,               
 then.                                                                         
                                                                               
 MS. BURKE replied that the bill is okay and apologized for the                
 oversight.                                                                    
                                                                               
 (HB 218 was held over)                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 2398                                                                   
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG adjourned the House Labor and Commerce Standing             
 Committee meeting at 5:53 p.m.                                                
                                                                               

Document Name Date/Time Subjects